|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 15, 2006 20:28:23 GMT -5
Greets - you want to know how your skills work and apply to the SR 'real' world heres a place to sort out those pecadilloes!
Some examples - Over the next few weeks/months I/we will be filling in those gaps in the rules and applying some 'real' examples.....
If you have any questions - give us a shout!
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 16, 2006 16:34:16 GMT -5
Rolls of rippy-wire
The earlier recon had made sure that this perimeter obstacle was not under electronic surveillance, so it was application of physical skills that was needed.
They halted the light rover two hundred metres from the wire. Chan had insisted that if the area was defended he would have put AP minelets in front of the wire.. so that’s where they stopped. He wasn’t over concerned that someone’s leg would be shattered, but that the noise would alert any guards – bringing down the heat onto the team before they were inside.
He was right – the Chem -Sniffer on a stick was used to sweep a 2m wide corridor up to the wire, uncovering three plastic biscuits and four spent minigun cases. 1
The devices had done their job – eaten into time. Their corridor had taken Chan four metres every precious round, nearly two and a half minutes, and they would need the same on the other side. 2
They got to the wire – standard top-of-the-wall rolls of rippywire though this was designed to maintain its shape of around a metre in diameter, strung out along the scrub-covered stretch of ground, secured by short hammered-in posts. The posts stopped vehicles towing the stuff away easily. Three rolls deep. 3
Benny-boy got out the cutters and quickly snipped through the concertinas. Chan stopped him at the third roll pointing out a nasty trick – the monowire at shin height hidden between the middle and last rolls of concertina. Now they were close in to it Chan pointed out the line of severed weeds, all cutting themselves on the monowire as the wind blew them about. They wouldn’t have noticed it if they had dragged the rippy-wire concertinas away using the rover, and one or two of the team would not be walking so tall.. 4
Carefully avoiding the expensive monowire, Chan led them 200m out of the other side of the minefield – the only device found was close in to the rear of the last wire roll, attached by a trip to one of the short securing posts, if it got pulled out or someone tripped it, the device went off. Benny-boy decided not to apply his Demo skill of 4 (no pool for this sort of test) vs 4s and any nasty modifiers. He had his toolkit all holstered around his waist – but was hindered by the darkness, a whopping +4 to give him four dice to beat an 8. Instead they marked the trip.
Sarge tapped the clipboard and spoke up from just behind us
Careful work there boys - well done for avoiding the monowire and congratulations in getting yourselves through the minefield – You should all now be dead, as they have an aerial drone sweep every…. Every ten minutes Sarge so were OK we got through… And you have left what behind..? A bloody big gap in the wire! That’s what!
1 the chem. Sniffer had cost just over 100,000 cred- for an average model (rating 5) and applied a 5 dice chemical sniffing skill at close range – tuned to explosives. This is modified by +1 for a brisk search, -2 for Chan being very professional and +0 for the device being of professional standard.
Five dice for the sniffer requiring 4s, down one, 3s to detect the devices and the minigun cases as they had been fired less than a week ago. No modifiers for darkness as the dark don’t affect sniffers. It missed the bones of two feral cats and some wind-blown rubbish that did not register as dangerous.
2 walking speed = Q in metres each round, where you are able to use a simple action of ‘use simple object’.
Q of 4 would get you 4m (per round of three seconds) – think of it as slow measured steps. That’s 50 x 3 second rounds = 2.5 mins.
3 Scrub in the wire ? - the area would be regularly dosed with veg-spray to kill off the weed. But unless you concrete over the ground the stuff keeps coming back. A dead give-away that the area is mined – they would have torched the place otherwise, much cheaper.
4 Noticing the monowire was a perception roll of Int dice vs the hidden wire. Monowire is so fine it is spotted on a high 8s +1 for the scrub hiding it and +4 for darkness. Chan must have eagle-eyes to spot it, though in all fairness he did notice the line of cut weeds at 8s and only afterwards on closer inspection spotted the wire. Chan’s Int of 5 gets him 5 dice vs 9’s. Would have been much worse if the area was cleared of weed, he would have been on 8s for the monowire, and +4 for darkness.
Someone had said their legs had been saved from monowire trips by the pair of steel Jitte they kept in the front of their boots – personally I think Chan could have found it by slicing the chem Sniffer into pieces instead. Though we’d still be paying for it now! – good idea is to put a plastic guard on the front of them.
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 16, 2006 16:36:10 GMT -5
This is how I see the mechanics working..
If I'm wrong please holler!
If you have better/easier/sneakier ways around this sort of thing - please stick your oar in!
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 16, 2006 16:47:21 GMT -5
Doors windows and walls, entry points to allow you or your gear in or out. How do you get in through them, how difficult is it?
Well, let’s have a look at how difficult the barriers are – you can generally disregard the ends of the spectrum..
Clik - the screen-shot moves forward over a variety of interior doors, house windows, broken skylights, then over a series of thin boarding from office partitions to one guy jumping through the plasterboard ceiling.. very dusty..
Glass – easily broken, cut – (BR 2) treacle and brown paper to stick over the pane then break it if you don’t want any noise. More sophisticated methods use a diamond cutter and a sucker. That’s why most places that want to keep you out don’t have glass windows or doors. Light plastic plates.
Partition walls, tyres, interior cheap doors are only slightly tougher and can be broken through with ease – think of any boarding that is there to pretty up the place or to stop draughts, you can punch through the stuff.
The top end is mil-spec bunker material, vaults and blast doors – stuff designed to take a direct hit from heavy weapons, artillery, air-strike and big demo-charges. That’s what you need to get through them. With lots of noise.
Pics from newsreel vids from the Amazon wars, views from the Euro-wars of laz strikes stripping the area but not taking out military bunkers, big demo charges followed by a stream of heavy troopers. Yes, big mil-spec kit!
That leaves the mid-range stuff – which is what we are interested in. The sort of passive security that will keep out the determined unequipped ganger, through to the heavier materials to keep out ram-raiders.
Most doors can be blown off their hinges and most walls reduced to rubble with explosives. So that has to be a consideration for any security complex, how much and how massive does it have to be? But explosives will always draw attention, even a grenade will summon the security from miles around, and although you could muffle it, there will still be enough of a noise to bring it down on you – whatever ‘It’ is.
Let’s have a look at these walls and doors – Oh by the way, security doors are double toughened materials making a security door twice as tough as standard. This is usually by adding a few layers of toughened plas – or a tough external metal layer.
The doors are going to match the walls near enough – as you will always try to hack or blast through the weaker material. Plenty of security doors have been blown out of the surrounding wall, because the wall material was easier to get through ! Security builders know this and fit appropriate doors.
Average material – (BR 4) and toughened ballistic or bullet-proof glass – standard construction materials for Mall shops, Housing, external non-load bearing walls. Usual construction materials involved is crete slab, brickwork, and big ‘plate-glass’ windows. These go hand in hand with a nice standard glass security door (BR 4) Easy to construct, light and cheap.
Heavy materials will include (BR 6) brick walls, older buildings not thrown up quickly, places built to last and also to protect – sheet steel, protect plastics, an extra layer of crete, light armour for vehicles, sandbags. All the sort of things designed to stick around for a while and give a little protection but still portable! Heavy flack vests, Kevlar
Reinforced/armoured glass(BR 8)– this is the heavy toughened stuff used for high rise buildings, to deter leapers, or for shop fronts and housing in troubled areas. Often this will have plastic or wire mesh sandwiched inside it. This is designed to stop – not just deter. Used in security doors – and quite often one-way mirror surfaced, so they can see and target whoever is trying to break in. Only the heaviest small arms can damage this stuff, most pistol shots bounce off! Remember, if this stuff is incorporated into security doors it will double its qualities taking it up to a BR of 16. The steel casings add to it’s rigidity and they usually throw in an extra layer or two. This is about the limit for doors, anything heavier is no longer a door, it becomes a movable wall!
Structural materials are the things that support and keep everything else up.. roof supports, lamp-posts, internal pillars, lintels. This will be the limit of building materials for low –level housing – anything up to around twenty stories does not need tougher materials in its construction. With a BR of 12 it will stand up to shakes and support tons of building around it. The skeleton of the Mall, crete floors of hi-rise hab-bloks, - also the military armour for urban fighting vehicles.
Heavy Structural is the flooring for multi-storey vehic-parks, load-bearing slabs of crete, the supports for the overzoom, girders, stanchions, foundation blocks.. crete reinforced with bar for commercial purposes. A BR of 16 will resist most use and abuse – burning vehicles, crashes, grenades, even missiles have a hard time getting through this stuff. Heavy industry has a lot of this in it’s makeup. Runways, supports for 300 storey buildings, bridges, that sort of big engineering project.
Finally both Armoured and Hardened materials. This stuff is BIG and THICK and HEAVY, in order to protect vaults, silos, and would need military assault to get through it.
How to get through these barriers?
Explosives – blow em away! However, the big drawback of even the smallest device is that it is loud and will alert any security.
Burn through the lock using an industrial acid – or a gas oxy-acetylene cutter - these tend to be too weak - a force of 6 maximum - great for melting plas sheets or thin steel, but not much more.
You can tamper with the lock, which is a subject to look at in the near future...
Or kick it down, shoot the lock off, hammer smash or cut your way through when you are in a hurry ! More things to look at as they are expected methods of entry.
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 16, 2006 17:00:24 GMT -5
Electronic locks..
You have seen the copshow trids where they opt to break in quietly using a bot or a device.. they just swipe the pad and the door pops open, quiet as you like- well this is what they’re all about.
The pic flicks onto a neat tridcast of Hawaii 5.0.0 where they unscramble the lock to the warehouse using a ‘black box’ lockbuster – the one where Danno gets shot, but he wasn’t really..
This trid-show gizmo, girls and boys was made from a dust-buster and plas-fill, because real ones are illegal. Take it from me that there are maglock circumventors, magbusters, lockbreakers, call them what you will, but theyre mostly different. Once the geeks get their mits on the circuitry, they are upgraded, adjusted , and can make caf as well. The forces tend not to use them as they are so expensive, plastique is cheaper and goes bang, and they like that!
What do they look like? Well, they all have the same internal circuitry, but can be housed in anything. Generally a robust plas shell, because the more complex these things get, the more expensive they are. A couple of months ago a top of the line model would not get you any change from two hundred Gees.
The more complex it is, the more hours a competent electronics professional has to put in. A high rating model will take around six months for a professional to create. Fair enough I hear you say, why not get an electronics professor onto it and halve the time – because they have steady very well paid contracts they will not jeopardise – did I mention that these are illegal and will earn you a two stretch?
So how do you know it works – try it out . Go down to the security mart and buy a handful of maglocks, and bust em!
The theory is quite simple, the magbuster has an internal competency, a rating level which is constructed into the machine’s circuits. This is pitted against the complexity of the maglock. Just run the buster over the magnetic lock and it will do the rest, just a few seconds. Fast, easy, quiet, does the biz, that’s why they cost so much.
On a scale of one to ten the cheapest type of maglock (0) should only be fitted internally to windows to stop the kids from falling out. Low to mid-range (1-3) will be fitted to most house garage car systems, to stop the casual opportunist. Mid range (4-6) protect shops, expensive items, and are generally very secure, usually with a link to the mall security or the star. Any medium to high (7-9) at about a thousand creds is a bargain! And will be for specialist purposes and will come with a wide variety of optional extras, such as voice or palmprint, retina scanner and bio scans – high level security linked to further internal alerts.
So say you have a medium rating buster, you’ve lost your bleeper and you need access to the garage, how will it work? The buster pits itself against the rating of the lock, and the lock fights back. Buster wins, lock opens. Lock wins, security is alerted.
The buster has to be medium high complexity say a rating of six or above on that one to ten scale, in order to have both enough clout to lay into the lock, and be powerful enough to protect itself against the lock’s rating when the lock fights back.
(In game terms a rating 6 magbuster has a six dice attack against the lock rating – call it a rating 4 lock = 6Dice vsTN 4, and the lock will fight back with it’s rating of four dice against the buster’s level – so 4Dice vs TN 6. So the buster should win most of the time. It is when you get security conscious shopowners with locks of rating 6 that provide security and thrift that the buster can be thwarted – or only have enough yen to buy a crap magbuster that is easily beaten by a stronger lock)
Some electronics pros have noted that it is so rare to encounter a very high rated lock – even the military will have general industrial locks on most of their standard areas – Keeping the specialist security on the silo. And that there is little difference between the medium and high ranges of 6 7 and 8. The 9 and 10 ranges are probably surrounded by much nastier protection devices anyway!
The downside of this is that those in the know will attempt to fit good, chunky maglocks of rating 6 – a nice big industrial lock in order to thwart the electronic burglar.
(As the lock has as good a chance of setting off the alarm as the buster does of breaking in. 50-50 aint good odds!)
Just to throw in a little more security the higher more complicated security can have bio scanners which add +2 to the TN complexity…. Ouch!
So what about that other thingymajig the sequencer…. Slightly different to the buster but works in a similar manner. Firstly you’ve got to get the housing off the swipe pad. Crowbar? The pad will be connected to the same security system as the lock – so you’ve got to be careful disconnecting this. It could be a pushbutton pad, swipecard or a stick-slot, or one of those specialist security ID systems – which tend to be very well protected.
A competent electrician using his B/R skill can pop this off by opposing his skill against the housing, one success is required, rather than the lock fighting back. This gives the lockpicker an immediate advantage over a mech/electronic device – no fightback. He still has to crack the housing off though. An anti-tamper system connected to security, can be fixed - with a rating of 1-4 for a measly fee, and suddenly the lock housing jumps from an industrial standard 6 to a tamperproof rating of 10 ! Very difficult to crack.
Once you’re inside the housing the sequencer can be applied. Lots of different styles around, but they all run on the same principal, open up the housing and connect up the links, then let the internal circuitry do battle with the lock.
You can now see why you need the highest rated sequencer (at around 150,000cr for a top-rating 10) or lockbuster (a mere 300,000cr) you can afford
Finally, and probably the best method to get through that door is by the application of the professional’s skills. Being unprepared will hinder the most ardent practitioner, while going about equipped to enter can net you a couple of years if you are caught.
Like the electronic lock-cracking devices, the locksmith will pit his Electronics skills against the lock. But this is where the systems differ - the lock does not have anything to fight back against, so as long as you are successful then you overcome the lock, and urine!
Before you go, there’s cardreaders – much simpler devices, and harder to get into ! Double its rating to break the housing and add an automatic +2 once inside. (course, you can steal a swipecard)
To recap, a corp security system should have at least a mid-range lock at a sensitive point, otherwise the magbuster, the sequencer and locksmith can all enter with relative ease. Up to a low security door door should be about rating of 3. These would generally be internal office type doors designed to keep out pests, not dedicated intruders.
Security doors for big companies and bonded warehouses should carry a heavy industrial maglock of rating 6, and why not put an anti-tamper device on it as well – to take it up to 10s. This could be installed for around 1500cr.
Tight corporate security and military hardpoints will carry a hefty system, at least 8, plus the anti tamper to bring it up to a whopping 12 – for about 2000cr – probably hard-wired up to a barracks.
If they really wanted to why not incorporate a bio detect system to add in an extra +2 difficulty! Looks good as well.
These last two systems could be cracked by a top-of-the-line magbuster with a 50-50 chance, or by a lucky lucky locksmith
Is there anything that can help the locksmith apart from luck? No – But you have a decker disable the tamper system which would be easier than wiping out the whole security ring…… Or a retinal imprint, or a bio-sample, the key-code, an inside friend, any sneaky way of disrupting the system….
These security systems are tough – the drawback of higher level ones is productivity delays and employee frustration having to take a minute or two to open the door to go off for a pee! Think of the queues to pass each high security door! So they will be positioned at bottlenecks… But that’s up to the Corp design team…
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 16, 2006 17:50:19 GMT -5
Kicking in the doors -
Probably the most often used method of B&R - a violent attack on the poor door or window.
Problem is that all barriers double their rating against almost all physical attacks. Firearms, blades, clubs sledgehammers - you could probably use a cold chisel and lump hammer quite effectivly, but it is all covered by this double the rating thing.
One strange glitch is you can use blunt attacks to attach through a barrier - like grabbing the Blade Runner through the wall - and the barrier is treated as standard, but to knock a hole in it then the barrier doubles.. sigh* (p125 SR3 barriers)
So how should it work?
Take a big heavy weapon - a sledgehammer or polearm (+3 to str)and someone built to break down doors with a STr of 6 gives a base damage of around 9S
Can you apply a combat attack? Why not - you can aim and shoot at a small target - the lock!
the door is static a couple of rounds aiming and you should be able to rustle up 6 or so successes. Your 9S gets up to 11D.
Pit this against a reinforced glass security door (Barrier of 8 doubled = 16) set into heavy - but not structual - crete (BR 6 doubled =12) Go for the bricks instead ! - youre going to get roughly the same result, as long as the attack is = to or greater than half the BR, you put a dent in it and will wear it down in around half a minute to a minute of battering it, eventually breaking through. Those pesky security doors have to be hacked off their hinges - the wall is easier to go through.
This really means that security walls should have a Barrier tough enough to stop a physical attack cold - around BR of 24 - structural material. You cant hack through that. Unless youre built like Glacier.
'Poo' I hear from the back we'll never get through - The saving grace of this is that the doors would have to be the weakest area - reinforced /armoured glass at BR 8 - or heavy steel plated things at around BR12... which become like blast doors, unweildy and very slow to allow access for the wage slaves - it is probably quicker to hack through them than to open them !
You CAN hack through most doors with a big enough guy carrying a big enough shifter -
Downside is it makes a helluva racket, but not as much as explosives!
Shooting out the lock tends not to work on security doors, as the maglock is easily set in the wall, and a series of steel pins running the height of the door will slot into place to secure the door. Shooting the lokk will just render the door lock broken but the door still locked - and the tamper proof device will summon the patrols.
Hacking through the door could leave the locking mechanism in place (so no alarm!)- if you were careful enough with the sledgehammer!
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 18, 2006 16:35:43 GMT -5
Does this help ? Is it informative - or are there better ways to do things ?
|
|
|
Post by Braddoc on Apr 18, 2006 19:24:16 GMT -5
Long texts..but quite informative, keep it up!
|
|
meg
Shadowrunner
Meg
shp(o~3000;; b~0;; i~0;; u~0;; s~0;; a~0;; )
I have made 255 posts
Location:
|
Post by meg on Apr 21, 2006 16:28:36 GMT -5
What sort of things could we post ?
useful lists of stuff that you generally have to work out -
explosive + rocket yields How about a fast draw? or surprise and reaction.. Falling and jumping
|
|
|
Post by wolflet59 on Apr 28, 2006 17:03:28 GMT -5
He toted it up 100cr a day rent for the glassworks - thats 3000 a month - theyd need about two months - Much cheaper than owning the place for 100,000 - if you were lucky..
It would take a week to prepare the lodge in the place, transfer it all from the Snake-Oil Shop, another week to put in some security while Meg sorted out the kilns and the rest of the kit. Gottal would recognise the place as being able to be used as an alchemical facility - and would no doubt be interested in the produShe had been getting more shady jobs than him recently, she took to them easily he worried, too easily?cts that he and Meg would be looking to make.
They would be able to come to some arrangement over exchanging Radicals and selling some through Gottal so he could make a cut.. Radical of gold, Freddy had been saving his haul of nuggets for a while.. his expedition should be reaching the pickup soon for the important trade-off, and they would have enough to use..
At current costs, gold nuggett was worth around 30cr an ounce - gold was cheap! all the traders used the old imperial for royal metals, sort of kept things proper. Around 35ish ounces to the kilo making a kilo of nuggett 1,000 give or take a few creds.
Meg wanted to aim high - she wanted to make the Oil, that Atlantis metal. She'd read everything on it, and reconed it would take her a month to concoct. As with any dream, they costed, and the cost to make the stuff needed pure gold, not just the stuff from a furnace, refined then radicalised gold. Gottal had a pricelist ranging from 40 to 80 thousand a hit for the stuff.
They reconed that if they could do it themselves, they could use any extra units they made, to trade for other less expensive alchemically purified metals. Each purification would double the price - the refining should take a week but the teasing out of the purity into a radical would be a whole month. They had two units and they could end up with eight, at 40,000 a hit! Freddy daydreamed about the spare quater of a mill they could create - then the Oil - one unit of the gold and a few other baser metals - all purified, could create three or four ounces of the stuff, the stuff of ledgends. Another month though - was a lot of time, but Meg would have her Doctorate and another 100 ooo for each ounce! A cool half-mill overall. They could stuff back-street jobs and concentrate on what they wanted to do.
|
|
meg
Shadowrunner
Meg
shp(o~3000;; b~0;; i~0;; u~0;; s~0;; a~0;; )
I have made 255 posts
Location:
|
Post by meg on Jan 12, 2007 10:14:43 GMT -5
Thinking about a fast-draw - in all of the old filums there was always that unknown who was the fastest.. skill natural ability and practice all seem to make a big impact ..
But in SR - skill has little bearing! I am a great believer in using successes - so why not sort out the speeds at which you fire, then fire, and use a number of successes to add to your speed..
skill level 9 but slow professional will always lose the draw on a skill 3 fast rube..
seems like natural ability always outclasses skill!
so why not allow characters to sacrifice accuracy for some other aspect - like speed..
so the pro gunfighter fast draws (slowly) but he flips the pistol in a well oiled and practiced low arc from the hip, fanning as he draws.. (rolls 9x dice plus 5xpool gains 12 successes - puts eight onto his speed and four to damage)
the cheeky upstart rolls 3 plus 3 for pool gains four successes all onto damage.. and gets blasted by the old-timer who's experience really does show!
you may have to declare how much you are willing to put onto speed before you roll to make it 'fair' even have a series of bids!
but the other guy gets to go first! comes the cry.. well the whole attack is taken in context speed hit pool etc - the reaction bit is merely an indicator of generally who gets to go when - and this is where I see it as being able to be adjusted by your skill successes like a lot of other outcomes.
So gunfights can be fought & won by slow but practiced old-timers...
|
|
|
Post by Mr. Johnson on Aug 28, 2007 12:51:00 GMT -5
IMPORTANT NEWS!!!
As of September 1st, 2007 the proboards forums will be locked, you will still be able to read the information inside but you will NOT be able to post replys or new threads. If you have not done so already please register at our new site theshadowrun.net. if you have any trouble registering for any reason, please don't hesitate to email me at mrjohnson@theshadowrun.net or admin@theshadowrun.net .
Unfortunately there will be no more unregistered members forums. This is due to an increase of Google Porn Bots posting their ads on the new website. I apologize for this inconvenience. The new site will have access to a chatroom which can be accesses through the panel on the left of the new site. I will also be adding a TeamSpeak server for voice games. If you have any questions or concerns please don't hesitate to email me at the 2 emails listed above, or post your concerns on the website. Thanks for helping me make theshadowrun.net one of the largest pbp (and now pbc) communities.
mrjohnson@theshadowrun.net admin@theshadowrun.net theshadowrun.net
|
|